| Subject: WNW GB 2009 - 10 LVG C.VI Carl |
 | Carl Althaus CaptainA | Location: Indiana, United States Member Since: May 14, 2007
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| Posted: Monday, September 21, 2009 - 04:19 AM UTC |
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I decided to build the LVG as a first entry. |
Now, to quote Monty Python "Albatros"
"Treat 'em Rough",
Carl
Current Build---A Jug, currently stalled, a B-17 for the Mighty Eighth Campaign, and the Wingnut group Build which has started. I have also been delving into the darkside (Muscle Cars | |  |
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 | Carl Althaus CaptainA | Location: Indiana, United States Member Since: May 14, 2007
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| Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - 12:05 PM UTC |
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I have been studying the instructions for this kit. As has been stated in just about every review, they are fantastic. It looks like it will be a very rewarding build.
My wife likes the first profile. The prototype. She likes the Mauve / green camo wings. I can't bear the thought of building this kit, and allowing all that lozenge to go to waste. I will probably do scheme C, D, E, or F. I am looking forward to seeing all that wood grain. I am not looking forward to doing all that wood grain. I think the checkerboard scheme (D), has been the most often modeled subject, so I probably wont do it. If anybody would like to chime in and give me their opinion on which one they would like me to do, I would love to get your assistance.
I have not started the kit yet, but I will probably start gluing some walnut and maple together tomorrow for a hand-carved propeller. The sprues might come out of their protective bags so the plastic can get a nice bath. I usually don't wash the sprues, so I have no idea what to clean them with.
Love the ribbon. |
Now, to quote Monty Python "Albatros"
"Treat 'em Rough",
Carl
Current Build---A Jug, currently stalled, a B-17 for the Mighty Eighth Campaign, and the Wingnut group Build which has started. I have also been delving into the darkside (Muscle Cars | |  |
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 | Keith Graveson Kornbeef | Location: England - South East, United Kingdom Member Since: November 06, 2005
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| Posted: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - 08:09 PM UTC |
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Carl, yes its a beautiful kit....one word of warning on the schemes, I think the decals are slightly out scalewise in some cases...I remember Mark (guitarlute saying the checkerboards were a little large and I found the zigzag band slightly too small to fit where ref pics show it. I have had similar size issues with the SE5a too where roundels and stripes were to big/small and had to work around or accept. she looks good OOB but there is a lot of extra's you can add and detail can be corrected but all in all a beautifully crafted kit.....tolerences so fine and neat you have to watch your paint  Over on the airodrome someone has gone to extreme lengths.. http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/models/42141-slow-wingnut-wings-lvg-build.html Keith |
Must try to build OOB----Must try to build OOB---Must try to build OOB
Don't look at plans--------Don't look at plans--------Don't look at plans
Don't read build logs---Don't read build logs---Don't read build logs
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 | Carl Althaus CaptainA | Location: Indiana, United States Member Since: May 14, 2007
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| Posted: Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 10:31 AM UTC |
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I checked the link. Thanks. Did you have any of the decal wrinkling problems on your builds? I cant understand how future would wrinkle the lozenge. It has me a little worried. |
Now, to quote Monty Python "Albatros"
"Treat 'em Rough",
Carl
Current Build---A Jug, currently stalled, a B-17 for the Mighty Eighth Campaign, and the Wingnut group Build which has started. I have also been delving into the darkside (Muscle Cars | |  |
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 | terri werner thegirl | Location: Alberta, Canada Member Since: January 19, 2008
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| Posted: Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 10:43 AM UTC |
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Can't recall what the profiles are , but it would be nice to see one done up differently For washing the plastic , or giving them a bath ! Just use a mid dish soap . |
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 | Keith Graveson Kornbeef | Location: England - South East, United Kingdom Member Since: November 06, 2005
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| Posted: Thursday, September 24, 2009 - 06:54 PM UTC |
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Quoted Text
I checked the link. Thanks. Did you have any of the decal wrinkling problems on your builds? I cant understand how future would wrinkle the lozenge. It has me a little worried.
I had no wrinkling problem... I use Klear though, cant get future in the UK...though I did read that the new Klear has been changed and has issues so tread carefully. Just note too that theres only a little spare loz left over. One thing though is is that for me at least it didnt adhere and handle too well and I took an age taping ribs. |
Must try to build OOB----Must try to build OOB---Must try to build OOB
Don't look at plans--------Don't look at plans--------Don't look at plans
Don't read build logs---Don't read build logs---Don't read build logs
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 | Nico Teunissen Kitboy | Location: Gelderland, Netherlands Member Since: July 20, 2006
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| Posted: Friday, September 25, 2009 - 02:02 AM UTC |
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I got one too, and I have spent many hours going through the parts and instructions with a happy face. Well first it's the SE5a of course, but this one will certainly be done for the groupbuild.
Cheers, Nico |
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 | Carl Althaus CaptainA | Location: Indiana, United States Member Since: May 14, 2007
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| Posted: Friday, September 25, 2009 - 10:30 AM UTC |
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It is all washed up and is currently drying, awaiting the kick-off in five days. I decided to do profile F. It is the Eleynor / Mia aircraft. I chose it because it is a good looking aircraft with lots of wood and lozenge. It is not real showy, but was obviously a much beloved aircraft of Lt. Weymar and Lt. Haselhoff. From the pictures of this aircraft, it does not look like it has a two-tone prop. Any thoughts on that good folk? |
Now, to quote Monty Python "Albatros"
"Treat 'em Rough",
Carl
Current Build---A Jug, currently stalled, a B-17 for the Mighty Eighth Campaign, and the Wingnut group Build which has started. I have also been delving into the darkside (Muscle Cars | |  |
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 | Carl Althaus CaptainA | Location: Indiana, United States Member Since: May 14, 2007
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| Posted: Monday, September 28, 2009 - 11:12 AM UTC |
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Three days to kick-off and like many other builders, I am trying to find some 1/32 gun jackets. I thought I had some, but all I could find were 1/48th. If somebody out there could do some PE Parabellum jackets, they would be very, very popular. Any ideas would be welcome. I am still studying the instructions. I would like to find areas where I could add some extra detail. These kits are so well done, there is not really much hope for those afflicted with AMS. Maybe Stephen will need to add a modeling law. Perhaps, When an almost perfect kit is finally put into production, the one part it lacks, will be the one part that is no longer available in the aftermarket.  Still, I did decide to try one obvious thing that I have not seen tried on any of the other builds of this kit. But you will have to follow the thread to find out what it is. Dear Eduard, we need MG Jackets for the masses. Must we start a write in campaign? |
Now, to quote Monty Python "Albatros"
"Treat 'em Rough",
Carl
Current Build---A Jug, currently stalled, a B-17 for the Mighty Eighth Campaign, and the Wingnut group Build which has started. I have also been delving into the darkside (Muscle Cars | |  |
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 | Erik Bosch One-Oh-Four | Location: Utrecht, Netherlands Member Since: September 30, 2008
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| Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 09:17 PM UTC |
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I thought Tom's Modelworks has them? |
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 | Stephen T. Lawson JackFlash
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| Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 09:37 PM UTC |
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Quoted Text
I thought Tom's Modelworks has them?
Tom's is closing. Whatever you can find on the market thats all there is. Tom Harrison passed away recently. Lung Cancer. Now there is a man for our hall of fame. |
Are you frequently seen with blood shot eyes from staying up til 3am to get the right colour scheme on your latest WWI model?
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 | Erik Bosch One-Oh-Four | Location: Utrecht, Netherlands Member Since: September 30, 2008
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| Posted: Friday, October 02, 2009 - 04:36 AM UTC |
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Oh! I didn't know that! My condolances to his family!
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 | Erik Bosch One-Oh-Four | Location: Utrecht, Netherlands Member Since: September 30, 2008
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| Posted: Friday, October 02, 2009 - 04:37 AM UTC |
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It seems that Karaya from Poland is also about to carry PE MG-jackets. I don't know if they're already on the website:
www.karaya.ceti.pl
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 | Andy Appleby Torchy | Location: England - East Anglia, United Kingdom Member Since: September 13, 2005
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| Posted: Friday, October 02, 2009 - 07:16 AM UTC |
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Hi all I had this Email last week from Toms Modelworks
". . .Hello Andy, my name is Angie and I'm Tom's daughter. We are unable to take any orders at this time. The business has been temproarily shut down because of my dad's passing back in February. I am working on the plans to have the business re-open. If you could, please hold onto your order and keep checking the web site for any updates as to when the business wil be ready to take orders. Thank you for you patience and continued interest in my dad's business. Angie. . ." hth Andy
" |
Major Caryle,
"Shall we have a go at the far end now,sir?"
Lt Colonel "Johnny" Frost,
"Having a go,is hardly text book terminology Harry"
Major Caryle,
"But you'll let us try sir?"
A Bridge Too Far
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 | Carl Althaus CaptainA | Location: Indiana, United States Member Since: May 14, 2007
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| Posted: Friday, October 02, 2009 - 08:32 AM UTC |
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Everything got primed yesterday. This morning I gave the interior and some of the exterior a shot of tan. It will be sitting and drying for a week while I am out enjoying the end of the golf season. There is a lot of scale wood to duplicate on this one, and I haven't decided how I am going to do it yet. I might try my old method seen here. http://www.aeroscale.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=102721#848990
I don't know how to attach a link but the thing that shows up will probably get you there.
I will do it a little bit on the lighter side as that one came out a bit dark. I do believe Brad got just the right shade on his though. How ever I do it, it will probably take a few weeks to do all the painting. Before I start, I am going to the Home Depot with a camera to take some pictures of birch plywood. I will try real hard to duplicate that. |
Now, to quote Monty Python "Albatros"
"Treat 'em Rough",
Carl
Current Build---A Jug, currently stalled, a B-17 for the Mighty Eighth Campaign, and the Wingnut group Build which has started. I have also been delving into the darkside (Muscle Cars | |  |
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 | James Fahey Jamo_kiwi | Location: Wellington, New Zealand Member Since: November 04, 2008
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| Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 06:25 AM UTC |
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Quoted Text
Carl, yes its a beautiful kit....one word of warning on the schemes, I think the decals are slightly out scalewise in some cases...I remember Mark (guitarlute saying the checkerboards were a little large and I found the zigzag band slightly too small to fit where ref pics show it. I have had similar size issues with the SE5a too where roundels and stripes were to big/small and had to work around or accept.
she looks good OOB but there is a lot of extra's you can add and detail can be corrected but all in all a beautifully crafted kit.....tolerences so fine and neat you have to watch your paint 
Over on the airodrome someone has gone to extreme lengths.. http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/models/42141-slow-wingnut-wings-lvg-build.html
Keith
Hi Keith That 'somebody' was me. I am joining in the WNW Group Build over here at Aeroscale with the Bristol F2B. I'm happy to help out if you have any questions. I ended up doing an LVG that used the Parabellum LMG14/17 thin barrel so I have a spare Tom's Modelworks PE barrel if you are interested. It has been rolled, painted and attached to the plastic gun. I think I did an OK job of it. Happy to sell it to you for what it cost me. Happy Modelling James |
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 | Carl Althaus CaptainA | Location: Indiana, United States Member Since: May 14, 2007
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| Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 11:20 AM UTC |
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Did the jacket fit the length of the parabellum? I compared the jacket I had to the gun (still on the sprue) and it seemed to be considerably short.
Did you figure out what caused the lozenge to wrinkle? |
Now, to quote Monty Python "Albatros"
"Treat 'em Rough",
Carl
Current Build---A Jug, currently stalled, a B-17 for the Mighty Eighth Campaign, and the Wingnut group Build which has started. I have also been delving into the darkside (Muscle Cars | |  |
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 | James Fahey Jamo_kiwi | Location: Wellington, New Zealand Member Since: November 04, 2008
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| Posted: Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 11:40 AM UTC |
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Quoted Text
Did the jacket fit the length of the parabellum? I compared the jacket I had to the gun (still on the sprue) and it seemed to be considerably short.
Did you figure out what caused the lozenge to wrinkle?
Hi Carl Yes I did notice the PE barrel was a bit shorter than the plastic version. But which is correct? When I get home I can take a comparison photo and post it for you to see. As far as the decal wrinking goes, I brush paint, and by not filling the brush so much it seemed to overcome the problem. I had an appropriately painted undercoat, then a Klear coat underneath (Klear in NZ is the same as Future in the US). Maybe if I had waited longer than just overnight the decals might have dried out a bit more, and perhaps that would have helped. The loz decals seemed very absorbent, much more so than the other LVG decal sheet. Did you know that the artwork for Eleynor is incorrect in the WNW instructions? It should have the red/brown finish like version E. Richard Alexander confirmed this to me at our local IPMS club. Richard's view on the red/brown finish is that it was *painted* on top of the plywood not stained. Have a look at the colourised photo of Eleynor on the WNW website to see what he means. That is consistent with the colour callout from the instructions which is 'l' Matt Rust according to page 1 of the instructions. Happy Modelling James |
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 | Carl Althaus CaptainA | Location: Indiana, United States Member Since: May 14, 2007
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| Posted: Friday, October 09, 2009 - 12:44 AM UTC |
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Once again, thanks. I would have done the light wood color. |
Now, to quote Monty Python "Albatros"
"Treat 'em Rough",
Carl
Current Build---A Jug, currently stalled, a B-17 for the Mighty Eighth Campaign, and the Wingnut group Build which has started. I have also been delving into the darkside (Muscle Cars | |  |
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 | James Fahey Jamo_kiwi | Location: Wellington, New Zealand Member Since: November 04, 2008
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| Posted: Friday, October 09, 2009 - 08:50 AM UTC |
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Here is a photo of the kit Parabellum MG compared with the Toms Modelworks PE cooling barrel fitted to the kit stock. The PE cooling barrel is about 17mm long compared to the kit's 21mm long. Which is correct? I'm inclined to think the WNW part is correct because they have photos of the real gun in the instructions. I'll check my references. Certainly the PE version looks better. It would be a bit of work to hollow out the kit part, but that could be another option.  I have compared the kit part with Toms Modelworks PE barrel, repro gun from The Vintage Aviator and a scale drawing by Harry Woodman from Scale Models Feb 1976. (I had to flip the repro gun photo which is why the magazine looks like its on the wrong way round). The result is not completely clear cut but suggests the kit part may be too long:  The same issue is present with the thinner Parabellum barrel also included in the Toms Modelworks set Check out The Vintage Aviator website for some great photos of reproduction machine guns: http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/projects/reproduction-guns/gun-gallery |
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 | Carl Althaus CaptainA | Location: Indiana, United States Member Since: May 14, 2007
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| Posted: Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 12:15 AM UTC |
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I like the look of the long barrel, but the shorter barrel does look more correct. I guess my Tom's set will work with a little barrel surgery. Been a while since I took a hack saw to the barrel of a shoulder fired weapon. |
Now, to quote Monty Python "Albatros"
"Treat 'em Rough",
Carl
Current Build---A Jug, currently stalled, a B-17 for the Mighty Eighth Campaign, and the Wingnut group Build which has started. I have also been delving into the darkside (Muscle Cars | |  |
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 | Stephen T. Lawson JackFlash
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| Posted: Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 05:06 AM UTC |
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Excellent support info James! |
Are you frequently seen with blood shot eyes from staying up til 3am to get the right colour scheme on your latest WWI model?
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 | Carl Althaus CaptainA | Location: Indiana, United States Member Since: May 14, 2007
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| Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 09:35 AM UTC |
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Well folks, I am back home after another fun vacation. So it is back to work. I got some wood glued up for the prop. The carving job was not very good, so I will try a second time. Luckily, I glued up two sets of laminations. It is hard to get that long slender look, but I did get some practice carving. Since I have done this before, I knew I would probably screw up the first try. And I was right. So I will try again in the morning. I also experimented with some different paint mixes to get the red-brown varnish represented correctly. I think I got close with a mix of military brown and British crimson. I will spray some later to see how it looks. But, after 11 hours in a car yesterday, it might also wait until tomorrow. I also got the lower engine halves glue together. So there is no progress worthy of pictures. But I hope to have something to show tomorrow evening.
So the question of the day is, Would the interior be red-brown like the exterior or honey colored? |
Now, to quote Monty Python "Albatros"
"Treat 'em Rough",
Carl
Current Build---A Jug, currently stalled, a B-17 for the Mighty Eighth Campaign, and the Wingnut group Build which has started. I have also been delving into the darkside (Muscle Cars | |  |
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 | James Fahey Jamo_kiwi | Location: Wellington, New Zealand Member Since: November 04, 2008
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| Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 12:01 PM UTC |
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Quoted Text
. . . So the question of the day is, Would the interior be red-brown like the exterior or honey colored?
My understanding of the red/brown finish was that it was an attempt to tone-down the glossy bright varnished ply from a camo viewpoint. No need to tone-down the interior I would think. Besides, the varnished ply interior would look nice! Happy Modelling James |
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 | Carl Althaus CaptainA | Location: Indiana, United States Member Since: May 14, 2007
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| Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 01:17 PM UTC |
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I was thinking the darker color might be an attempt to preserve the wood. That would explain the interior floor being dark on the Shuttleworth aircraft, and the rest of the interior being done in the honey color. That is what I wanted to do with mine. It looked good on yours. So what is your take on the painting of the cooling jackets on the engine? The instructions and some museum pictures have them being partially painted red or blue. Was that something that was done to enhance the museum pieces, or was it actually found on flying examples? You know the more answers you provide, the more questions I will ask. I am like a three year old kid that way.  I am currently trying to come up with some more questions. You are a great help, Jamo. |
Now, to quote Monty Python "Albatros"
"Treat 'em Rough",
Carl
Current Build---A Jug, currently stalled, a B-17 for the Mighty Eighth Campaign, and the Wingnut group Build which has started. I have also been delving into the darkside (Muscle Cars | |  |
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 | James Fahey Jamo_kiwi | Location: Wellington, New Zealand Member Since: November 04, 2008
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| Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 04:13 PM UTC |
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Quoted Text
I. . . So what is your take on the painting of the cooling jackets on the engine? The instructions and some museum pictures have them being partially painted red or blue. Was that something that was done to enhance the museum pieces, or was it actually found on flying examples?
Hi Carl A Google search on the Benz Bz.IV comes up with: "The red paint on the cylinders denotes that this is a high compression “uberkomprimiert” version of a Bz IV engine, hence the designation BzIVu." This was in relation to the surviving engine in Brussels that features on Mike Lewis' website, referred to here: http://www.enginehistory.org/restorations.htmScroll down to the Benz Here is another good quote: "In the previous restoration 'attempt' the valve gear was painted black. In service this would have been bare untreated metal." Have you had a good look around Mike Lewis' LVG restoration website? Worth a look. By no means all LVGs had the ubercompressed Benz motor. Don't know if the normal ones had a band or not. I'll keep looking. Ubercompressed cooling system varied from the normal Benz as well. Regards James |
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 | James Fahey Jamo_kiwi | Location: Wellington, New Zealand Member Since: November 04, 2008
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| Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 06:53 PM UTC |
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Red/brown fuselage colour I haven't seen a definitive answer as to whether the red/brown was a stain or painted on. This thread over at The 'Drome is an interesting read on the topic: http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/camouflage-markings/41832-stained-german-plywood.html Dan San Abbott notes "Some LVG C.VI aircraft were stained with a dark reddish brown stain, prior to lacquering or varnishing". This is how I chose to depict my LVG, not with a painted finish. Koloman Mayrhofer's post on p2 is useful about the different shellac types. John McKenzie is an experienced restorer of WWI aircraft and he notes the colour of commercial orange/brown shellac, as new, looks like this on his BE2b reconstruction:  This would be the 'ordinary' colour of the LVG before staining with the red/brown I think. Did you know Albatros Productions have announced Datafile #138 will be "LVG C.VI At War", due to be published by early December 2009? Over 70 archive photos, extra colour pages featuring close-up details and new Ronny Bar profile art, plus fully detailed 1:48/1:72 plans by Marty Digmayer. Also includes detailed colours and markings notes, kit list and appendices. I didn't find the old Datafile particularly useful, hopefully this will be the definitive solution! Happy Modelling James |
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 | Carl Althaus CaptainA | Location: Indiana, United States Member Since: May 14, 2007
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| Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 08:54 AM UTC |
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I had seen that Albatros Productions was going to do the LVG for release in December. I am anxiously awaiting its arrival. I like the color on the engine and the color might find its way to my build.
I have started the interior in honey, and the floorboard in red-brown. The basecoat of tan seems to have bubbled up on some of the parts. Luckily, it was all confined to the interior where it will not be highly visible. Still, I sanded the parts down and sprayed another coat. I have no idea where the bubbles came from. But it looked like some sort of a reaction with the primer coat. Other than that little glitch, all I accomplished today was to glue some of the parts together (radiator, gas tank, MGs) so when they dry, I can sand and paint them.
Thanks yet again, Jamo |
Now, to quote Monty Python "Albatros"
"Treat 'em Rough",
Carl
Current Build---A Jug, currently stalled, a B-17 for the Mighty Eighth Campaign, and the Wingnut group Build which has started. I have also been delving into the darkside (Muscle Cars | |  |
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 | Carl Althaus CaptainA | Location: Indiana, United States Member Since: May 14, 2007
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| Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 08:18 AM UTC |
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I have been making some reasonable progress and hoped to have some pictures posted. But my beloved old camera is no longer in the realm of the living. I have been looking for a new camera for the past few days. It is amazing how much you can pay for a decent camera with macro capabilities. But I found a good one that will do what I want. So now I have an early birthday present. A Canon PowerShot SX 20 IS. I will try to figure out which button does what and get some pictures up tomorrow. |
Now, to quote Monty Python "Albatros"
"Treat 'em Rough",
Carl
Current Build---A Jug, currently stalled, a B-17 for the Mighty Eighth Campaign, and the Wingnut group Build which has started. I have also been delving into the darkside (Muscle Cars | |  |
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 | Carl Althaus CaptainA | Location: Indiana, United States Member Since: May 14, 2007
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| Posted: Friday, October 23, 2009 - 12:07 PM UTC |
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The new camera is up and working. Unfortunately, I waited until dark to try to shoot these pictures. They look alright, but I think I need better lighting.  The interior is off to a good start. I decided to paint the seat with a two tone appearance as in the instructions. It adds a little interest to the cockpit. The seat belts are from Eduards WWI German set. I also added some pulleys to the forward bulkhead. The control wires from the rudder bar are going to thread their way through these pulleys. I tried a new technique to do the wood on the floorboard. First I painted a wood tan base coat. Then I did a red-orange coat over that with oils. When all was dry, I did a light sanding to expose some of the base tan. Then I used some Spada wood decals over the top. It produced a very convincing worn wood appearance. On the seat, I used a base coat of buff. I painted a red/leather mixture over the top. When dry, I did a light sanding to produce a worn leather look.  The prop was hand carved from laminated maple and walnut, finished off with a little clear gloss. |
Now, to quote Monty Python "Albatros"
"Treat 'em Rough",
Carl
Current Build---A Jug, currently stalled, a B-17 for the Mighty Eighth Campaign, and the Wingnut group Build which has started. I have also been delving into the darkside (Muscle Cars | |  |
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