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Waterloo questions
VonDodenburg
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Posted: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 04:18 PM UTC
Hi,

I have managed to purchase several Airfix figures from their old 54mm Waterloo series and would like to create a small diorama or two and try my hand at some conversions. My questions regard the meeting of several opponents in combat. I would appreciate info or websites where I can find the following info:

Did the Lancers of the guard, Polish or Red, ever fight the Highlanders?
Was it at Waterloo or Quatre Brass where the Scots Greys and Higlander infantry attacked together?
Did Napoleon's Line Lancers (conversion) ever encounter the highlanders at Waterloo or the Peninsular campaign? If so, which lancer regiment?
Also, I do not have the British line infantry figure yet, but did the lancers attack any squares?

I would like to include the cuirassier but this figure seems to be much larger than the rest of them. Did the Heavey Cavarly take steroids?

Thanks, any help will be appreciated. I should know some of this stuff but will use my family and job as an excuse.

Charles
Graywolf
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Posted: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 05:42 PM UTC
hi Charles,
I am not an expert about this period of time and I am sure there will some members that can give you more informative help but the following sites tell some about battle order of waterloo and can help you:

http://www.britishbattles.com/waterloo/waterloo-june-1815.htm
http://www.napoleonguide.com/battle_waterloo.htm
best regards
DaveCox
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Posted: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 06:15 PM UTC
I can help in part:

The 1st Lancers of the Guard (Polish lancers) were almost wiped out in Napoleons earlier campaigns, the 2nd (Red or Dutch) Lancers were at Waterloo, but I don't know if they ever charged a square.
The line regiments of Lancers would have been at waterloo, but I can't ascertain which regiments at the moment as it was common practice for the French to amalgamate severly depleted units into new regiments.

When I can find the books, I may be able to help more, as I do have orders of battle for the British units, and some more info on facing colours and units etc. for the French.

The cuirassiers were large men, and were issued with the heaviest horses, they were Napoleons shock troops, intended to performe the same function as the medieval knight and shatter the enemy front line.

Removed by original poster on 06/23/06 - 03:16:09 (GMT).
Removed by original poster on 06/23/06 - 03:37:25 (GMT).
Removed by original poster on 06/23/06 - 05:38:46 (GMT).
Arthur
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Posted: Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 01:52 AM UTC
Hi Charles,there two Regiments of Lancers at Waterloo,there was a composite unit formed from the old Polish Lancers(blue uniforms)and the Dutch Lancers(in red)both sections retained their old uniforms.The other was the Combined Lancer Regiment which was brigaded with Chasseurs a Cheval,Lancers would have come up against the Highlanders when the former were in square at the time of the massed cavalry attacks.It was the Lancers who decimated the Scots Greys when the silly prats went on to hit the French guns and were caught on their flanks,the Highlanders were present at Quartre Bras and repulsed at least one cavalry attack,all in all a lot of scope for some good ideas.Good luck with the dio.
Arthur
Removed by original poster on 06/23/06 - 08:04:47 (GMT).
Drader
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Posted: Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 12:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Was it at Waterloo or Quatre Brass where the Scots Greys and Higlander infantry attacked together?



The Scots Greys advanced through at least one Highland regiment at Waterloo, and some of the Highlanders accompanied them for a while, but not into the charge.
bydand
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Posted: Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 03:16 PM UTC
Hi all,
The Scots Greys advanced through the Gordon Highlanders at waterloo, the story is that some of the Gordons hung onto the stirrups and rode in with the greys, I recall that in the mess there was a hoof from one of the grey's horses used as an ornament or an inkwell, I can't remember which, but it was 20+ years ago(I'm getting old )

Charles,
Type in 'lady Butler' on a google search. she painted several pictures of waterloo and Quatre Bras, try this one first: http://www.allposters.co.uk/gallery.asp? it should give some insperation. I think that the one of the Scots Greys and the Gordons is called 'scots wa hie' but isn't shown on this site, and has been modelled several times I saw a version of it at The Milton Keynes Show this year.

HTH

Craig (bydand)
Edit I've just had another look it should be 'Scots wa hae' which is also the name of a traditional song, which I'd forgotten, I AM getting old.....
DutchBird
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Posted: Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 04:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text

by DaveCox

The 1st Lancers of the Guard (Polish lancers) were almost wiped out in Napoleons earlier campaigns, the 2nd (Red or Dutch) Lancers were at Waterloo, but I don't know if they ever charged a square.
The line regiments of Lancers would have been at Waterloo, but I can't ascertain which regiments at the moment as it was common practice for the French to amalgamate severely depleted units into new regiments.



Going by the Osprey booklet (Campaign series 15: Waterloo) The Lancers might indeed have attacked squares. The plate/birds eye view at page 66 has the following quote:

".... Lefebvre's 7 squadrons of lancers ... cross the Brussels road and assault Wellington's centre en echelon from the right."

In the diagram the have them hitting the troops just to the right of Wellington's center.

According to the order of battle at the start the Lefebvre was the commander of the Light Cavalry Division of the Guard, formed by the Guard Chasseurs à Cheval and the Lancers of the Guard (under Colbert-Chabanais). The latter presumably, going by your remarks, would contain the Dutch and Polish Lancers.

As far as the troops they hit (but I guess Dave's references will be much better and clearer on that), going by the plate on page 78 (though this is the attack of the Imperial Guard, I am looking at the allied troops in the roughly the same location) and the pre-battle diagram on page 58 (which are consistent with each other), they slammed into the junction of 1st and 3rd Division of I Corps, into Byng's, Maitland's and C.Halkett's infantry brigades (supported up by Grant's and Dörnberg's cavalry to their rear), and predominantly Maitland and Halkett of those three...

Going by the order of battle provided, the Allies units were the following:

Maitland's Brigade (1st Division I Corps): 2/1st, 3/1st Guards.
Byng's Brigade (1st Division I corps): 2/2nd, 2/3rd Guards.
C. Halkett's Brigade (3rd Division I Corps): 2/30th 33rd 2/69th 2/73rd.

Grant 7th, 15th Hussars, 2nd Hussars KGL
Dörnberg 1st, 2nd light Dragoons KGL, 23rd Light Dragoons.

I hope this helps. And if I have made any grievous errors, please let me know, and I apologize for them beforehand.

Harm
DutchBird
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Posted: Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 04:58 PM UTC

Quoted Text

by VonDodenburg

Did Napoleon's Line Lancers (conversion) ever encounter the highlanders at Waterloo or the Peninsular campaign? If so, which lancer regiment?



Well,

my complete further lack of resources shows up here. Which units during the Napoleonic Wars were considered Highlanders?

Harm
VonDodenburg
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Posted: Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 08:45 PM UTC
Guys,

Thanks for all the information and websites. This really helps.

I still think the airfix Cuirassier is somewhat out of scale compared to the other Airfix Waterloo figs, even for Heavy Cavalry.

By Highlanders I was referring to the Kilted Airfix figure. Wish all these figures were produced again.

Thanks

Charles
DaveCox
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Posted: Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 10:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Guys,
Wish all these figures were produced again.

Thanks

Charles



Still all easily available on Ebay, and apart from my favourite - the rifleman - all at reasonable prices.
Tarok
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Posted: Friday, June 23, 2006 - 02:35 PM UTC
Harm,

I suppose the "generic" answer to "Which units during the Napoleonic Wars were considered Highlanders?" would be Scottish Regiments. Bear in mind that not all Scottish Regiments were kilted.

Off the top of my head, those serving in the Peninsula campaign were:

1/42nd (Royal Highland) - incl. Waterloo
2/42nd
1/71st - incl. Waterloo
2/73rd - Waterloo but not Peninsula
74th (Argyle)
1/79th (Cameron) - incl. Waterloo
1/91st
1/92nd (Gordon) - incl. Waterloo


Re. the Airfix 54mm figures I've been fortunate to pick up a 3-4 of the Highlander "Black Watch" (Waterloo) at a few hobby/craft shows over the last few years... methinks it's high time I put them together :-)
DutchBird
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Posted: Friday, June 23, 2006 - 08:02 PM UTC
Thank you Rudi,

this is what I meant... Unfortunately I have no clue which regiments are/were Scottish, and my very limited sources do not give an answer to that either (unless I have misread anything).

I'll see what I can do from there....

BTW, if I read your post correctly, and my dedctions in a previous post are correct, it DOES mean Highlanders and Lancers could have met in battle at Waterloo).

Seeing that the Polish/Dutch Lancers were part of the cavalry column that attacked the brigades of which the 2/73rd was part.....
Tarok
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Posted: Friday, June 23, 2006 - 09:09 PM UTC
How about a depiction of Quatre Bras? Where the 42nd were attacked by French Lancers... I stand corrected, but I think that's where a mortally wounded Col. Macara was murdered together with some troops while being carried from the field of battle...
Tarok
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Posted: Friday, June 23, 2006 - 09:15 PM UTC
BTW, what was D'Erlon's corps comprised of? Only Line infantry? It was this column that the Gordons and the Scots Greys attacked while calling out "Scotland For Ever!"... the column was destroyed in 3 minutes!
DutchBird
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Posted: Friday, June 23, 2006 - 11:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text

BTW, what was D'Erlon's corps comprised of? Only Line infantry? It was this column that the Gordons and the Scots Greys attacked while calling out "Scotland For Ever!"... the column was destroyed in 3 minutes!



Hi Rudi,

going by the Osprey volume:

D'Erlon (I Corps)

1st Division (Allix/Quiot)
54th, 55th Light Infantry (Quiot)
28th, 105th Infantry (Bourgeois)

2nd Division (Donzelot)
13th Light Infantry, 17th Infantry (Schmitz)
19th, 31st Infantry (Grenier)

3rd Division (Marcognet)
21st, 46th Infantry (Noguez)
25th, 45th Infantry (Grenier)

4th Division (Durutte)
8th, 29th Infantry (Pegot)
85th, 95th Infantry (Brue)

1st Cavalry Division (Jacquinot)
7th Hussars, 3rd Chasseurs (Bruno)
3rd, 4th Lancers (Gobrechet)

I Corps Artillery (de Salles)
5 foot batteries
1 horse battery

Hope this helps,

Harm