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For fantasy figures. Elves, dwarves, dragons, etc.
Correct Thinner w/ Artist Oils for Wash?!
JPeiper
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California, United States
Joined: November 25, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 03:40 AM UTC
Tried a new technique using artist oils as a wash on faces and ran in to a couple of problems.

On plastic figures (from my spares box... thank goodness!!!) with a base of Tamiya acrylic cured 72+ hours I tried these two thinners with the following results:

1.) Artist oils thinned with Testors enamel thinner. The Tamiya base lifted and ran like a dog! I applied very lightly and the base lifted almost instantly.

2.) Artist oils thinned with generic hardware store paint thinner. Although the base did not lift the pigment appears "too big". The pigment appears as large particlulate in the wash. As a result, the pigment does not flow well in to the recess and dries blotchy.

Any recommendations for either altering the technique or a different thinner? I would like to avoid sealing the acrylic base painted face with a gloss as that appears to shiny and unnatural.

Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated at this point!
Cob
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Washington, United States
Joined: May 23, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 03:43 AM UTC
Try turpenoid. It is a milder form of turpentine. You should be able to find it in a craft or art store.
v/r,
Cob
JPeiper
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California, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 11:30 AM UTC
Cob-

Thanks. I'll give it a try. I was told about "odorless" thinners as well.
AndersHeintz
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 12:02 PM UTC
Hola JP,

Great that you are trying new techniques for your figures!!

Did you wash and prime the figure first before you painted the tamiya basecoat?
What oils are you using?

As for your blotchiness, try mixing it and stirring it very throughly, sometimes when you make an oil wash, the oil paint sticks in small 'balls' and needs to be pressed agaist the edge of the mixing container, so they can desolve. Try this and lets see what happens!!
JPeiper
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California, United States
Joined: November 25, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 12:26 PM UTC
Anders-

Thanks for the response.
Yes. I did wash the figure with soap/water and toothbrush and rinsed well.
No. I did not prime the figure. The figure plastic color is very close to the Tamiya base. Also, I was / am concerned about loosing facial detail with many coats of paint. I applied 2 light coats of the Tamiya base with my AB.

I will mix more thoroughly. That is an excellent point that I may have neglected. Another contact stated that enamel thinners simply don't work with artist oils. So, I will go with the "odorless" / turpenoid recommendations. And, that turpentine is just too "hot" or harsh for what I am attempting...

Gracias!!!
dioman
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: June 06, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 01:21 PM UTC
I had the same problem after years of using Tamiya acrylics as an undercoat for oils...they changed their formula a few years back so it was less smelly....and screwed it up for me........oils now lift all Tamiya acrylics.....I now have to spray my Tamiya undercoat with MM acrylic flat...then proceed with oils......I only wait about an hour after and have never had a problem.
herberta
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Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 02:43 PM UTC
HI

I gave up on Tamiya acrylics a while back because it never seemed to matter how long the paint had cured, washes lifted the finish. I use PollyScale and others now without any similar problems. The oil thinner shouldn't lift acrylic paint if the base coat has dried for a while (days).

Sorry to hear you had such trouble.

Andy
AndersHeintz
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Texas, United States
Joined: March 05, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 03:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The oil thinner shouldn't lift acrylic paint if the base coat has dried for a while (days).



Hola Andy,

I use hobby acrylics such as Apple barrel and Folk Art, I never wait more then 5 max 10 minutes to apply oil washes on the acrylics. Usually I'll paint whatever Im doing, and if a wash is needed I mix it up and apply it. It has been as soon as a couple of minutes after the acrylics are painted, put infront of a light bulb and 10-15 minutes later I'm ready for the next coat over the wash. And I've never had any problems with it.
dioman
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 06:22 PM UTC
Let me be more clear about what I was trying to say.....Tamiya paint changed their formula because someone whined about it being too smelly.....now they can not be used as an undercoat for oil paints without putting a clearcoat of some kind over it.
This problem almost drove me crazy because before they changed their formula they always worked excellent for me....it wasn't until I talked to our local paint expert at the hobby shop that he told me why....because I like Tamiya paints so much for their ease of use and colours.....i go to the bother of spraying them with MM acrylic flat before applying oils.....you might want to try some other brand of acrylics....there are a lot on the market.
screamingeagle
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Connecticut, United States
Joined: January 08, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 06:39 PM UTC

Quoted Text

HI

I gave up on Tamiya acrylics a while back because it never seemed to matter how long the paint had cured, washes lifted the finish. I use PollyScale and others now without any similar problems. The oil thinner shouldn't lift acrylic paint if the base coat has dried for a while (days).

Sorry to hear you had such trouble.

Andy



Hi JP ...Andy is correct. An oil wash should not lift an acrylic base. This is why I never liked Tamiya Paint .... I never trusted it.
OK - I find your situation a bit odd, because I apply oi/enamel washes directly over ENAMEL BASE COAT'S WITHOUT any clear coats, after my base has dried for 72 hour's and hadn't ever had any paint lift or other problems. What kind of Testors thinner did you use ? You SHOULD NOT use Testors AIRBRUSH Thinner for washes! ...... it's much stronger than normal alkyd thinner's. If your going to use Testors thinner, make sure it's the TESTORS BRUSH CLEANER/THINNER #1148 in the little square bottle OR the bigger bottle #1156.. It's a milder thinner and VERY DIFFERENT from the airbrush thinner. Testors also warn's against what I just told you in their "literature by mail ". ..... AND Testors Airbrush Thinner will eat through most acrylic's too ! Just thought I'd pass this on too you for future reference. I know, because I learned from experience. It doesn't matter how long your acrylic or enamels base has dried .... the T.A.B. Thinner wash will eat up or krinkle your base paint beyond recognition !!!!!!!!!

THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT IF USING TESTORS THINNER FOR WASHES


- ralph
JPeiper
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California, United States
Joined: November 25, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 03:49 AM UTC
Folks-

Thanks for the great responses. I really appreciate the help.

Ralph-The bottle of Testors Thinner that I used is identical to what you scanned in except that the logo is in orange/red rather than blue. All the other lettering / description is the same. As a matter of fact, this is such and effective stripper that I used it to strip my test figures back last night! Clean as a whistle! Seems odd to me too because I had heard the Testors was pretty mild.

Seems like there is some contrary info and I know what works for some don't mean it'll work for some one else...

I cleaned up my figures last night and retry with some of the suggestions.

herberta
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Canada
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Posted: Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 04:55 AM UTC
Hi guys.

I let stuff dry a long time as part of the better safe than sorry strategy.
I have used oils directly over recently applied acrylics with no problems.

I use odorless thinner (the cheap kind from craft stores) and find that works fine over any finish.

Cheers
Andy
screamingeagle
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Connecticut, United States
Joined: January 08, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, January 23, 2003 - 01:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Folks-

Thanks for the great responses. I really appreciate the help.

Ralph-The bottle of Testors Thinner that I used is identical to what you scanned in except that the logo is in orange/red rather than blue. All the other lettering / description is the same.
Seems like there is some contrary info and I know what works for some don't mean it'll work for some one else...




Hi JP .... WOW, that's pretty odd. It might very well be a reaction to the Tamiya acrylic, maybe.
- I use the Testors Brush Cleaner/Thinner for my washes using oil's & enamels, with very good results. I also use Oderless Turpenoid ( in the blue can ) for my oil washes.
And Mineral Spirits as a last choice. Hope everything works out for you.

- ralph
JPeiper
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California, United States
Joined: November 25, 2002
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Posted: Monday, January 27, 2003 - 04:36 AM UTC
Just an update for the folks who gave me the advice...

I picked up some "odorless turpenoid" thinner and tried it out. I am very pleased with the results. No lifting of the Tamiya base and the oils pigment went in to a very fine suspension.

So, I had a "wash - fest" this weekend with the burnt umber and lamp black oils. A side benefit is that the wife won't complain about my/the house smell any more!

Thanks again, folks. You're the best!