login   |    register
Painting: Painting with Oils
Discuss Oil painting techniques.
Tarleton Step 4 - Comment thread
mongo_mel
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 04, 2002
KitMaker: 1,580 posts
Historicus Forma: 1,170 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 03:41 AM UTC
Hi guys,
Step 4 of the Tarleton bust build has been published.
this one deals with painting the hair and the eyes.

You can use this thread to post you comments, questions and progress pictures.
Thanks,
Craig
PS: Don't forget, pdf versions of this and all other installments are available. Just drop me a PM or email with your email address and I'll send it out to you.
Tarok
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Victoria, Australia
Joined: July 28, 2004
KitMaker: 10,889 posts
Historicus Forma: 4,745 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 01:54 AM UTC
Hi Craig,

Thanks for another great installment. I'm so glad I've finally had a chance to read through this step again.

A couple of (inevitable ) questions and comments...

I really like the way you do the hair. The beauty is that this technique can be applied to any hair or fur surface. I noticed you used the same techniques on the crest (?) of the helmet. Speaking of the helmet, will you be covering that as a seperate topic?

Then, in the final 2 hair pictures, you've attached the head. Is this just a loose fit for now? Or has it been permanently attached? If so, how did you get that hair above the knot lined up so well? I can't see a glimmer of a seam line...

Moving onto the eyes... as I mentioned to you earlier, I was quite surprised that you did hair and eyes in the same feature, and that there weren't as many pics as the rest of the features. But, as you explained to me you had a few issues along the way... Anyway, no matter, I think you explained your technique well.

BTW, how did you do the bloodshot eyes in the Wallace bust? Looks really cool!

Again, thanks for another great addition. Looking forward to the next!

Keep well

Rudi
mongo_mel
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 04, 2002
KitMaker: 1,580 posts
Historicus Forma: 1,170 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 05:21 PM UTC
Hi Rudi,
Yes,I used pretty much the same techniques and even the same co lors on the helmet fur.
I should have mentioned that the head was still loose. it's just shown in place for viewing the hair. Good catch! Thanks for that.
The hair and eyes were to be separate installments but it made them both look too small. this way the "life" items are all handled in two installments and the helmet will all be handled in one.
As for the lack of in progress eyes....that's my fault (of course :-) ).
It took me a couple of tries to get the eyes as you see them here. By the time I got them, I realised I hadn't taken the in progress shots. My apologies for that guys. If anyone wants, I can try again owhen I paint my next set of eyes.
As for the bloodshot effect...that was done by placing a tiny dot of Alizarin Crimson into the corners and dragging it out towards the center.
Thanks for your feedback, Rudi.
It all helps and is very much appreciated .
Craig
Tarok
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Victoria, Australia
Joined: July 28, 2004
KitMaker: 10,889 posts
Historicus Forma: 4,745 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 04:28 PM UTC
Hi Craig,

Thanks for the feedback about the head/hair.

No problem about the eyes, as I mentioned above, I think you explained it well enough... besides, I think one could dedicate entire books to painting figure eyes :-)

Thanks for that tip about the bloodshot eyes... I suppose trying to replicate it in 54mm will either be lost to the naked eye or merely result in a werewolf type eye. Definitely something to remember when I eventually pluck up the courage to do a bust

Rudi
slodder
_VISITCOMMUNITY
North Carolina, United States
Joined: February 22, 2002
KitMaker: 11,718 posts
Historicus Forma: 783 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 05:03 PM UTC
Very nice - I always like these step by steps. I really would like to get into large bust painting. Time, where is the time...
lscrep
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: September 08, 2005
KitMaker: 19 posts
Historicus Forma: 9 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 07:42 PM UTC
What color Green will we be using for this figure.
You have added green to the hat in the last installment, but don't indicate
which WN color we will be using?
Love this thread so far it has helped me improve my first attempts to paint a figure again after 30yrs.
Tarok
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Victoria, Australia
Joined: July 28, 2004
KitMaker: 10,889 posts
Historicus Forma: 4,745 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 07:55 PM UTC
Hi Wayne,

AFAIK Craig will be covering painting the helmet in a forthcoming installment. He didn't actually cover painting the helmet in that thread, per se, although the hair techniques should also be applied to the crest of the helm...

HTH

Rudi
mongo_mel
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 04, 2002
KitMaker: 1,580 posts
Historicus Forma: 1,170 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 09:40 PM UTC
Hi Wayne,
It's good to have you aboard and I'm happy that it's helping you with your figures.
Rudi is correct, we haven't reached the greens yet :-)
Painting the helmet will be covered in full in the next installment.
But as for the fur on the helmet, he's only partially correct.
It's done using a variation of the colors and technique used on the hair.
But that too will be shown in the next installment.
Craig
lscrep
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: September 08, 2005
KitMaker: 19 posts
Historicus Forma: 9 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 08:28 PM UTC
My question on the color green was to save myself additional trips to my art supplier. My local sources do not carry the entire WN line, but a distant Art supply store 40+miles away does carry the complete WN line, so I was attempting to save gas and trips to have the proper paint on hand.
Wayne CPO,USN (ret)
mongo_mel
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 04, 2002
KitMaker: 1,580 posts
Historicus Forma: 1,170 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2007 - 09:36 PM UTC
Hi Wayne,
I understand now
I don't know positively which green or mix of colors to get there I'll be using for the uniform yet. Let me look at the piece tonight and try to decide. In the mean time, can you let me know what you have in the folloring colors:
green, yellow, blue and black
There's a good chance that I'll be mixing up my green from some combination of a blue and a yellow. With luck, you won't need to buy another tube if you don't have too.
Craig
lscrep
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: September 08, 2005
KitMaker: 19 posts
Historicus Forma: 9 posts
Posted: Monday, March 12, 2007 - 12:49 AM UTC
Here's what I have for oils all WN
Ivory Black
Flesh tint
Cad Yellow med
Naples Yellow
Raw Umber
Burnt Umber
Burnt Sienna
Vandyke Brown
Yellow Ocher
Indian Red
Titanium White

No blues at all or greens

I have a full set of 72 of Vallejo colors, but the object is to do it in Oils.

Wayne

redneck
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 06, 2005
KitMaker: 1,602 posts
Historicus Forma: 88 posts
Posted: Monday, March 12, 2007 - 02:13 AM UTC
Craig I donít know if WN have the shade but Iíve got a tube of Green Earth (Grumbacher) that looks very close to the right color. I think it just needs lightened a bit. (Havenít tried yet) if you have this shade you may want to try playing around with it and see what you think.
Iíve been thinking about falling back to this color if I donít have the recommenced paint.

Just a little advice from the formal landscape painter.
mongo_mel
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 04, 2002
KitMaker: 1,580 posts
Historicus Forma: 1,170 posts
Posted: Monday, March 12, 2007 - 03:58 AM UTC
Hi Wayne and Jacob,
I did a lot of looking afround for a good color for the uniform. The Earth Green does look like a good match for the box art. But I did find a good site that shows a much different color for the uniform...

link

I came up with a pretty good color match for this using Winsor Blue (green shade) and Cad Yellow (medium should be good).
What I'll do is post up a question here and on planetFigure and let you know what I hear. I hope that's okay for you guys.
Craig
mongo_mel
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 04, 2002
KitMaker: 1,580 posts
Historicus Forma: 1,170 posts
Posted: Monday, March 12, 2007 - 04:50 PM UTC
Hi guys,
I found some good info on the uniform color here
Including these photos...






and this Tarleton portrait...


so, I'll work up a mix to get as close as I can to match this green and post it up for you
Craig
redneck
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 06, 2005
KitMaker: 1,602 posts
Historicus Forma: 88 posts
Posted: Monday, March 12, 2007 - 05:14 PM UTC
Great pictures Craig.
I had just been going by the box art for the previous suggestion.
Vic
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: December 14, 2004
KitMaker: 1,697 posts
Historicus Forma: 1,303 posts
Posted: Monday, March 12, 2007 - 06:27 PM UTC
Hi Craig and all,

Here's some pics of where I'm at, it's more step 3 than 4. I'm a bit behind.
Still got more shades and lights to do, the bright sun washed out whats is already there. Having said that, I tend to paint more on the subtle side rather than the heavy contrast technique.

It's interesting using someone elses technique as well. I quite like this way.

Comments/ suggestions welcome.

Vic







Tarok
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Victoria, Australia
Joined: July 28, 2004
KitMaker: 10,889 posts
Historicus Forma: 4,745 posts
Posted: Monday, March 12, 2007 - 06:46 PM UTC
Hi Craig,

From the portait the coat seems to be more akin to the green worn by Britain's Rifle Regiments. The reenactors seem to be wearing a slightly "greener" kit - if that makes sense

Vic,
Looks like a good job there. Despite the slight washout from the sun, the shadows and highlights can be pretty clearly seen.

Rudi
mongo_mel
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 04, 2002
KitMaker: 1,580 posts
Historicus Forma: 1,170 posts
Posted: Monday, March 12, 2007 - 08:40 PM UTC
Hi Vic,
Good looking skintone you have there. I agree with Rudi that even with the sunlight washing things out a bit, the shadows and highlights look to be in good locations. I'm looking forward to seeing him after you add your secondary shadows and highlights.
And I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying this little exercise :-)

Rudi, I think I understand what you mean there
What I got from my "research" was that the green on the box art was maybe a little too light. I'm guessig that it might just be due to the printing process. I found this thread with comments by the sculptor that describes the color as
Quoted Text

a deep, bright green

.
I went thru a lot of paint trying various mixes last night. And I think I'm going to go thru a lot more tonight :-)
Craig
Tarok
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Victoria, Australia
Joined: July 28, 2004
KitMaker: 10,889 posts
Historicus Forma: 4,745 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 10:43 AM UTC
Hi Craig,

I saw your thread on pF, and it seems like the consensus is that the green should be similar to that of the British Rifle regiments of the time. Although most say the 95th, it appears they have forgotten about the 60th, which IIRC was an "American" regiment - actually AFAIK only the 1st battalion was American. An interesting and probably useless tit-bit is that the British Rifle regiments based their uniforms on experiences gained throught the Anglo-American wars.

Craig, I suppose another approach is that in a case such as the American Revolutionary war, the American war was largely civilian and as such many uniforms were home tailored, with only the wealthy having professionally tailors uniforms. As such a general guideline as to the exact hue of the colour would have been issued (i.e. "dark green with red facings"), but individual uniforms would have differed from tailor to tailor, from ream of clothe to ream of clothe... So what I'm saying is that as long as it's a dark green, is there really a "wrong" colour in this case? Something to ponder I guess...

Rudi
mongo_mel
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 04, 2002
KitMaker: 1,580 posts
Historicus Forma: 1,170 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 07:19 AM UTC
Hi guys,
Okay, after mixing a lot of different paint combinations, here are my results.
The best dark greens came from a combination of Cad Yellow and any of the following blue colors....
Prussian Blue
Winsor Blue (red shade)
Winsor Blue (green shade)
If you have any of those colors you're good to go. I liked the Winsor Blue (green shade) the best and will be using it but they were all pretty close.

Along these lines, here's a suggestion for you all to think about.
I once made a chart comprising all my yellow paints across the top and all my blues and blacks down the side. Then I mixed a little bit of each where they met on the chart. Not a ton of difference for most but at least you have a good visual reference for the next time you need to mix up a green shade. The most interesting result I got was when I used yellow shade called Juane Brilliant. This mixed with the Winsor Blue paints gave an interesting teal color.
Another was Cad Yellow mixed with Cerulean Blue made a good match for the primer color I've seen inside of aircraft.
Craig
lscrep
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: September 08, 2005
KitMaker: 19 posts
Historicus Forma: 9 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 07:24 AM UTC
Yep I did some reading on one of the other forums on mixing oils and ended up buying a tube of WN Prussian blue to mix up the green I will need.
Wayne
Removed by original poster on 03/20/07 - 00:13:08 (GMT).
mongo_mel
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 04, 2002
KitMaker: 1,580 posts
Historicus Forma: 1,170 posts
Posted: Monday, March 19, 2007 - 12:07 AM UTC
Hi Vic,
I think it's looking great!
Your addition of more shadows and highlights has really helped. For my own taste, I agree with a little bit more of both. As for the red, I'm afraid I can'thelp you there. I've never had ant success doing that. Always turned out like my figure was wearing rouge .
As for the eyes...I say go for it. Even if it's just painting the whites of the eyes (although my wife says it makes my figures look creapy). It really can help define the face as can getting color on the hair.
Nice work Vic
Craig
Vic
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: December 14, 2004
KitMaker: 1,697 posts
Historicus Forma: 1,303 posts
Posted: Monday, March 19, 2007 - 05:53 PM UTC
Hi Craig,

That's wierd, I deleted my last post and checked it was gone but it must have come back again
I thought I'd do a bit more before posting as I didn't want to flood the thread with all my photos. Having said that I got some more here :-) :-)

I know what you mean about the red looking wrong. I kept taking it back off with blu-Tac untill I got what I think looks acceptable.
As you can see I've done the whites of the eyes and will do the rest when dry. I've painted the hair and like your technique very much. I think it needs some more Highlights though. As you say, it make a hell of a difference to the overall look of the face.

All the best one and all,

Vic

Edit: Just realised, I forgot the bloody eyebrows














mongo_mel
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 04, 2002
KitMaker: 1,580 posts
Historicus Forma: 1,170 posts
Posted: Monday, March 19, 2007 - 06:33 PM UTC
All right Vic! Looking good my friend

Framing the face with some color on the hair really does help put the face colors in perspective, doesn't it?

I like the hair. Good color. I agree, some more highlights might be worth trying. I'm in good company here. I forgot the eyebrows at first too .
And the ponytail!!!

I do have one concern for you though. I noticed the area of the neck where it seems some paint has scraped off. At first I wasn't concerned because I thought the scarf on the body would cover it without any problem. But now, I'm worried that it may not. How does it look with the head placed on the body?

Don't worry about flooding the thread with your pictures. That's what it's for!

Congratulations. I'm looking forward to see ing the next step soon.
Craig